@Harley…you wrote the following yesterday… “What a pile of crap. I disrespectfully disagree. There is a point to life for non-Christians too, cousin. That post is quite narrow-minded…”
I appreciate you being up front acknowledging yourself as a “non-believer” and your willingness to accept the fact that your comments are disrespectful. I’m assuming for the purpose of this rebuttal that “non-Christian” means Atheist in your case (considering that I have known you personally in the past I don’t think “non-Christian” means you are arguing from the Mormon or Hindu point of view).
It seems to me you misunderstand the premise of my post. I am not arguing that non-Christians cannot “find a point to life” – but it IS my belief that whatever point they find will ultimately not satisfy, will not provide true validation AND will be based on a belief that is inconsistent with the non-believing world-view. This is particularly true for Atheists. People are certainly free to try and find validation in many things – every sort of endeavor, relationship and behavior – but it is my premise that all such efforts are ultimately futile. I stand by my belief that true validation can only be found in the Creator…
Now, respectfully, I began my post with the concept of “the challenge of spiritual growth.” Assuming a “non-Christian” is an Atheist, this entire concept should not apply to the non-believing crowd. At least this should be expected based on the non-believers worldview that anything supernatural is untrue. So, this post should not actually provide any interest for such a person. It would be like me giving my opinion about Carolina Crown having a better show in 2012 than Blue Devils. If you are not part of the world that believes Drum and Bugle Corps is of any particular value (or interest) such a statement shouldn’t interest you nor should it result in any visceral response. On the other hand, drum corps fans may have a wide range of passionate opinions on this subject (and for the sake of argument I DO think Crown’s show was better!). A true non-believer therefore shouldn’t care what theists believe in the first place or, at a minimum, they should at least acknowledge that their irritation is inconsistent with their worldview.
Now, of course, I am saying that only a Christian world-view provides a rational, logical BASIS for validation in existence – and this fact may be the source of your irritation. But I would ask you to consider carefully WHY that bothers you so much. On what foundation are you basing your irritation? What rational grounds do you have for your indignation? You may CHOOSE moral and ethical positions but your worldview cannot EXPLAIN why any non-material concepts such as morals, ethics or validation can have any rational basis for being invariable or true in any real sense. If you are the product of mindless, purposeless chemistry then there is no rational basis for ANY sort of moral or ethical positions. As the famous Atheist Richard Dawkins says…
“In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” (Dawkins, Richard, “The Necessity of Darwinism”, New Scientists, Vol. 94 (April 15, 1982). P. 85
Dawkins is telling us that the Atheist position explains reality as the product of mindless, purposeless chemical interaction based purely on the laws of physics and chemistry. This means that there is no purpose for existence, no meaning, no memory, no after-life, no reward or punishment. So, whatever “point” you find in life is ultimately no point at all, has no meaning, no value…just purposeless indifference…IF, that is, you remain consistent with the naturalist, non-believing worldview. So any point you find is, by the definition of the naturalist worldview, not a point at all. And don’t forget, being inconsistent with your stated worldview is a form of being irrational.
The Creationist, Theist worldview is altogether different – and that was the substance of my original post. I’m not ashamed of my world-view it, I don’t hide it and yes, it is narrow-minded. But for a theist concepts such as validation for existence, morals, ethics and logic are actually issues of truth vs error, just as 2 + 2 = 4. This addition problem is also very narrow minded. There are people who believe 2 + 2 = 5 or some other number (just ask any elementary teacher). Teachers have to correct these sorts of addition errors because addition is not an issue of opinion or feelings – it is an issue of truth. If we accept the notion that there is no such thing as real truth then concepts such as math have no meaning – and following that path of thinking everything in reality ultimately falls into absurdity. Furthermore, if we say there is no truth we have to ask “is this statement true or not.” In this fashion, using reason (which we cannot adequately explain using only naturalism) such an argument refutes itself.
Atheists are, of course, just as narrow minded. They absolutely insist there is no possibility of anything outside of nature – and you can’t prove a negative, not with logic anyway. This position is also narrow minded.
Since you’ve provided no adequate reason for your description of my position as being “crap” and your thesis that you CAN find a point in life being a non-believer is inconsistent with the naturalist worldview – I suggest reconsidering your argument. As a theist I can demonstrate that logic, reason, observations of the uniformity of immaterial concepts such as ethics and reason, the uniformity of nature, irreducible complexity, probability and a myriad of other reasonable arguments and demonstrations from science provide powerful, positive evidence for theism.
So I say, once again, that Atheists and other non-believers can attempt to find validation in things or people other than the Creator but this effort is ultimately futile. True validation can only be found in the Creator.